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Disrespecting women

  • Trey'sAngelMichelle's picture
    (2 years 4 months ago)

    I'm wondering how most women feel when there are songs calling women the b or h name? I try not to be offended by it because I don't feel like I am either one of those. Women had to fight for so much in this country to get to where we are today. So many women around the world aren't so lucky to have it this good. I never thought Trey used those words to descibe women until I heard his mixtapes and not this new single. I would just like to know what other women think about this topic. Thanks!

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Trey'sAngelMichelle's picture
on December 5, 2011 - 12:02am
Forum category: 

I'm wondering how most women feel when there are songs calling women the b or h name? I try not to be offended by it because I don't feel like I am either one of those. Women had to fight for so much in this country to get to where we are today. So many women around the world aren't so lucky to have it this good. I never thought Trey used those words to descibe women until I heard his mixtapes and not this new single. I would just like to know what other women think about this topic. Thanks!

JesusIsMySavior's picture

Interesting question@Uriel I wonder that myself.

Uriel_2's picture

I wonder if he gets tired of sex. Think about it...He sings about. He performs in a sexual manner. Females constantly throw the pu**y in your face. Grab on him like he's a sexual object (which I think is funny because a man like that can understand the harrassment sometimes women go through everyday). I just wonder after awhile would you get tired of anything having to do with sex because you are always surrounded by it. Just curious...

mon5termuncher's picture

I agree with that these words used can sound derogatory to women, but I view it the same way that rappers use the N word in their songs, it can be a diss or a compliment. I try to look at these words within the context that they are used and although in the UK these aren't popular words, US media seems to show this kind of language as acceptable on a street/hood level. Also I look at some of the usernames that some women use to describe themselves for example bad b**ch or h*e and I think it would be interesting to know from them why they choose those words and if in everyday life they would want a man to refer to them as such.
On a personal level I work in an area where I see people from all types of backgrounds and who use the most basic of language at times so I understand that this may be the way they have learned to communicate and express themselves. Rappers sometimes use different persona's so does the lovely Beyonce. It's all entertainment and if we don't like it we don't have to listen to it and as far as children are concerned, it's our responsibility to ensure we monitor what they listen to and watch.

TREYZONELOVE_2's picture

Ok, so u give what u want to get in return! With that being said, if a female dont respect herself how do u expect anyone to respect u. U have to love urself first before anyone can love u. Because if u dont love u, u wont know what good love is when u get it. N when that does happen a good man/woman now thinks evry body else is like that. If a man respects women he will do just that, but when he meets a female that carries herself as a h' or b', TRUST he will treat her as such! As far as Treys rap, I think its part truth (his expereince) and part jus entertainment. Oldest sayin in the book " u got to give respect to earn respect" thats to urself n others. Like I said before the music/lyrics dont bother me bcuz he isnt talkin about me or anyone I know. Its women that go out here n sleep wit men tryin to have they babies, especially if they a celebrity, dont even get me started on that. Go from men to men tryin they hardest to get pregnant. They have websites on "HOW TO BE A GROUPIE" n "GROUPIE CONFESSIONS". Please explain to me how do u expect a man to respect a female like that!!!!! She has absolutley no respect for herself. Im not tryin to put women down but its whats real! This excludes women who are in abusive relationships, although they have to find their self worth n love themselves as well.

Tricia AKA @GimmeUnusual's picture

In my Twitter profile it says, "I am who God says I am: Intelligent, beautiful, destined for greatness and loved." God doesn't use a derogatory term to describe me; therefore, no, I'm not at all insulted or let down every time Trey uses a derogatory term. I know who I am and I don't allow music or other people's word dictate my value. I couldn't imagine Trey being any other way and I'd never want him to change unless it's for HIS betterment. If people are really sensitive to the disrespect, it goes way beyond the use of bitches and hoes. Cheating is in his music...being a one-nighter (Don't Love Me)..."Would U think a nigga rude if I said I wanna f*ck right now?"...the bluntness...which is why I just love this man. No I am soooo not offended. I just want Trey to be him & make the freaky, kinky, audio-pornography he continues to make. LOL

Uriel_2's picture

The truth is there are women out in this world who do carry themselves as h's and b's and disrespect themselves. That is the reality. They know who they are too. Just keep yourself seperate from that pack, and you will be just fine. Is it okay for them to be disrespected? No, but if you disrespect yourself how do you expect anyone else to respect you? Be your own woman, and don't befriend those kind of females. If they get an attitude, and say to you "What you think you are too good to be friends with someone like me?" You tell them "Yes...I am. I don't have time for what you are all about." Then keep it moving.

humbleheart's picture

Yes, there may be more h's or b's in the world today, but the real question is why and what is making these young ladies behave this way? I really think these young ladies act this way because they are trying to fill the emptiness on the inside. They want to be desirable and loved. This reminds me of a 'heaux story':

There once was a woman who was thirsty. For what, she didn't know. She just knew that if she didn't quench her thirst, she would die. Her choice of drink was men. After all, what can satisfy a woman more than a man? So, she married one man, thinking that he would change her life and fill her on the inside. This didn't work. So, she married again, and that relationship didn't work. This woman married and divorced three more times, and still she didn't get filled. They were all alike: she gave them her all, only to be rejected. So, she stopped marrying. No man wanted her anyway, because 5 already had her.

Locked away on the inside of her heart was her desired to be loved. No longer was she looking to be filled, but she just needed one man, any man to make her feel she was desirable. And she settled. The woman settled for a man who wouldn't marry her, but wanted to play house. It wasn't real, but enough. Never mind, the hurt and the pain she felt or the names that she would be called. The fact that the others left her already made her feel worthless.

Then one day, while getting water, she met a man who didn't treat her like a b or a h. He wasn't afraid to be seen with her. He was different. He told her that he was what she thirst for- living water. How did he know about her 5 husbands? Who told him about her live in boyfriend? And yet he still LOVES me?! After all I've done and all of the mistakes I've made, he still loves me?! She dropped her bucket and ran. No longer was she looking for water to quench her thirst. She had found it...in him...

Once women know who loves them, they won't search for it in the wrong place :)

Trey'sAngelMichelle's picture

I never started this topic to put Trey down. I'm just wondering why women are talked about this way in so much of the music today. Maybe there are a lot more of those types of women these days! Lol!

cutiepie28's picture

I just want to say, which I'm sure someone else probably already mentioned, it's just music! Anybody that know Trey personally, or have met him before, know that this is not who he is. It's entertainment! Although, I do believe there is a lot of truth in his music, I seriously doubt that the bitch, or the hoe, he is referring to is real. Trey Songz is an entertainer, Tremaine Neverson is the real person, and I'm pretty sure that Tremaine wouldn't dare disrespect a woman like that, mainly because he was raised by women. Plus, I know that I'm neither one of those, so it doesn't bother me. Just my two cents:-)

CutTiGurl609's picture

@humbleheart nope i couldn't resist I love a good debate lol

but i understand your points and you have made some valid ones. we may just have very different personalities or views on certain things and some things that you may see as a problem I may see as fun or vice versa. i see nothing wrong with the idea of music making people feel aroused cause its a natural feeling or an age appropriate adult taking back a few drinks or dancing to music at a club as long as its done with discretion of course. so there fore i see nothing wrong with Trey's music.

humbleheart's picture

@cuttigurl609, hahahaha couldn't resistant, huh? ;) Lol, but no I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I wasn't implying that music alone influences our actions. There are so many factors that contribute to behavior and so many different stimuli to the brain that shape thought patterns and actions. Music, however, is a factor that shapes who we are. If it wasn't you would be listening to Cold Play instead of Trey Songz lol (not saying that you don't because I listen to many different genres).

The studies conducted on the influence of music on the human brain were done in 'healthy' subjects, so the results reflect the effects of music on 'healthy' individuals and not the mentally disabled. Large companies manufacture products to healthy consumers who are able to keep a stable job and pay for their products, not the mentally disabled (statistics show that those who have mental disabilities are more likely to be poor). Also, just to share info, every study done in the diseased (e.g. on the human brain done in the mentally disabled) must have normal controls to verify the evidence. So, I think we both agree that girls aren't running around with their bottoms up, but when that song comes on in the club, it definitely does effect the behavior of some usually rational-minded women.

sn: Lmbo @ the level of horny! I do think that music can effect the "level of horny?" in individuals. If your listening to something sexual, you're more likely to think about sex. Why do you think so many babies were made off of Luther Vandross or "Fire and Desire" by Rick James? :) Something to think about...I definitely have enjoyed the convos though, and I respect your points even though we disagree.

ladinicole87@gmail.com's picture

I know I'm not either of those words so it doesn't bother me as much. There are women in this world who do act like hoes and I know its not nice to label them but that's what they are. Now the lines in his mixtape crack me up bc he just so raw with it.Sometimes we females do act like bitchy dudes do the samething so the bitches and hoes and go either way.

CutTiGurl609's picture

Ok studies tho? lmao I'm not even gonna go any further with this convo

Wait yes I am lol. The brain is way more complex than that. The study may be correct in a sense but it doesn't hold your entire brain captive and have you walking around all day like a zombie saying "Neighbors..No.. My.. Name...... Do... it.. with.. no..hands" while trying to force people to put their bottoms up lol I'm sure you know that tho

Songs can alter your mood and the music can get stored into your memory but thats the same for anything in life and thats when the other part of your brain that does the reasoning comes in and determines whether those things will effect your actions. So I think its safe to say that people, without mental illness, can withhold any influence of just music alone. Now for the people who may seem to act out some of the influences they hear in songs or anywhere for that matter, there are other factors like life experiences, drugs/alcohol, peer pressure, level of horny lol, that may effect the thought process of reasoning and ultimately lead to a decision that then leads to actions like, just singing the song or acting out the stories told in the song.

humbleheart's picture

@cuttigurl609 that type of music you choose to listen to is a personal decision you make. You mentioned that Trey Songz is an entertainer. To entertain means (by defn) to hold the attention or capture the mind. Everyone knows that whatever captures your mind controls your thoughts, and thoughts (not checked) lead to actions. So it is important what you listen to, and it is that serious. Many studies have been done on the effects of music on the mind. It is for this reason that commercials almost always use music when advertising--because the beat/melody combined with words lead to thoughts which lead to actions. Millions and Millions of dollars spent and made from relaying messages with music definitely say otherwise. Ask Folger's coffee, Diet Pepsi (RIP Ray Charles lol), and McDonald's. Ask Trey Songz for that matter lol j/k. Even ask yourself the question: How did I learn my ABCs? I could go on and on with more examples, but I will keep it short. Who knows? Maybe the studies are wrong...

CutTiGurl609's picture

Oh and because I choose to listen to his music and except it for what it is doesn't have anything to do with my life and the personal decisions I make in life. Its just music its not that serious and that goes for anybody.

CutTiGurl609's picture

@humbleheart everything you mentioned rings truth is some case but not all cases. The point I was trying to make is that because you may not agree with some of the things Trey does or says doesn't mean his music lacks substance like you said in your first post.

Trey is here for us to enjoy him not judge him. He is an entertainer and thats wut he is doing. With r&b and hip hop this is the kind of music you get. I think if people don't like it maybe those genre's aren't the ones they should listen to. There is jazz if you want the sound like r&b and there is gospel and contemporary gospel music if you always want that positive message. But with RHYTHM & BLUES your going to get exactly that, a nice jazzy sound and whatever the artists are going through at that moment, whether its positive or dark or sexual or angry or contradicting etc. The same goes for Hip hop or rap, its exactly wut that person is thinking at that moment.

No one is perfect and everyone has room for growing and learning no matter the age or level of fame and I don't think anyone here thinks Trey is an exception to that but neither are we and I know I don't need someone, especially someone who doesn't even know me, to tell me that.

We also can't assume that Trey or any artist doesn't have honest people in their lives. Although it is possible, we can't say for sure. Just my opinion but I think Trey has some honest people in his life and he has mention he did before.

As fans, some of us go too deep into the lives of the artist that we forget their ultimate purpose is to entertain us and we have a choice as to whether we support that artist or not. In any healthy relationship you have to take the good with the not so good. So take it or leave it lol but in Trey's case I'll be taking all of his music.

JesusIsMySavior's picture

“I would like to conclude my post by saying this: we as women need to understand our value and our worth. The worth of something is determined by the price one is willing to pay for it. You are valuable, too ladies. Stop giving a man everything and downgrading your worth to a one night stand. If you’re worth it, he should be willing to pay the price for you (not the other way around) I know my worth; I’m an expensive commodity. Are you lol? :)”

True!! :)

JesusIsMySavior's picture

“Many women like Trey Songz because they think he’s attractive and sounds good, and would still like him even if he said or did something they didn't like. And in real life, they would settle for these types of men. That dude they’re dating could talk bad to them and they would stay because he looks good. He could be sleeping with many women and they would stay with him because he talks a good game. This IS an important issue for us as women. We shouldn’t want to date a guy just because he looks good or is a man of stature but because he is a man of character; it is his character that will be climbing in the bed with you every night, talking to you, and going with you through life’s trials.”

You have a valid point. Since I became a fan of Trey’s and I have seen interviews and what have you and I have come to the conclusion that Trey tends to have a good sense of people. He tends to gives people what they want. Whether its sex, flirtation, a kiss, a hug, an autograph, confrontation, or conversation. Whatever it is he will do his best to give it to you. In his music he speaks of women he has dealt with basically co-signing whatever he does in a relationship. Perhaps those women did let things slide because he is an attractive man or because of his status and that could be why he treats some women a certain way. I think Trey needs and wants a woman that brings him down a notch. Of course he loves the praise and compliments but he knows he needs a woman that will keep it real with him. I truly believe that once Trey truly falls in love with that special someone his lyrical content will change.

JesusIsMySavior's picture

@humbleheart:

“Another point I think needs to be made, is a lot of women who tolerate men saying things like that about other women (this is my opinion), do so because they settle for those types of men.”

This could be the case for certain women, but certainly not me. I would never want to be with a man that called me or any woman for that matter a bitch, hoe or any other derogatory name. Personally that would be a red flag to let me know that he may not view women well.

JesusIsMySavior's picture

@humbleheart:

I will say in Top Of The World it does appear that Trey is making contradictory statements. From what I gather from that verse is that if he was a young lady’s father he would be an involved parent and instill positive qualities/values in that young lady. Therefore by doing so she would avoid guys like Trey that are only interested in one thing. Plus more or less he saying to the lady you want more from than I can give. She wants to hold a special place in his life but that may not happen. I don’t think he is saying take what he is saying as a compliment. He is being as real as possible. He is saying thanks for giving up the va jay jay but I don’t want you like that.

I think Trey is very aware that he has issues that need to be dealt with, especially spiritual ones. He is a God believing brother and I know he tries his best to please God. However, I know it’s a daily struggle for him when it comes to certain things especially fornication and possible other weaknesses.

JesusIsMySavior's picture

@humbleheart

“That being said, I think that it is important (note, that I’m speaking in general) for people to have individuals in their lives who will challenge them and inspire them to be a better person. This requires honesty with those you care about, while presenting the truth in love.”

I agree.

“Also, the comment that I made about Trey Songz disrespecting women was made because I felt that a lot of his fans wouldn’t tell him the truth. The majority of his fans are so caught up in how ‘fine’ he is or what he looks like with his shirt off that they’re not willing to tell him the truth.”

I wouldn’t say the majority of his fans, but I will agree there is a portion of his fans that wouldn’t keep in 100% with him.

“Furthermore, I don’t think a lot of celebrities get the privilege of growing in character because there aren’t people willing to tell them the truth; and when someone does, all of the followers get angry, not realizing that worshipping someone and praising someone for everything they do does not push them to be a better person.”

I agree.

JesusIsMySavior's picture

@Una Feliz Ángel: I'm with you when I don't like a certain song I skip the song.

JesusIsMySavior's picture

There are things about Trey's lyrics and some of his actions that have me raising my eyebrow every so often. Trey is young and he is a work in progress. Through positive life experiences the brother will evolve into a better man. Like I said before he is apart of generation that expresses themselves differently than past generations. I don't want to pass judgment on the brother because I truly don't know him and besides I'm not in the judging business that is God's responsibility. Just keep the brother in prayer.

humbleheart's picture

PART II: While speaking the truth in love, I would like to respectfully say that this is an area in which Trey Songz can improve (i.e. watching the type of language he uses towards women and content). @cuttigurl609, you mentioned a few positive songs that Trey Songz had put out—glad that he has them. However, none of the songs you mentioned were ones from the mix tapes that were mentioned in the discussion topic, which are what people were concerned about. Since you mentioned them, tho, I will talk about them. One song you mentioned, ‘Top of the World’ sends mixed messages. You mentioned that He said in that song about girls needing to get respect from dudes. That line is below:

“And young girls, make these little niggas respect you/If I was your father, I'd never neglect you” However, right after that, He says this:

“So a nigga like me probably never of met you/Probably something special, happy I met you and I'm/But you really wanna know me, I JUST WANNA SEX YOU/After you wanna cuddle, I don't want, but I let you/You made me promise, and I'm honest, try not to forget you!(If I could)”

This is an area in which character needs to match what is being said, and I think that Trey is aware of that because he put this contradiction in this song. He’s basically saying, you deserve respect, but I’m not the one to give it you. You want to know more about me, but I just see this as another opportunity get some. No hard feelings about me not being able to remember knowing you in the MOST intimate way possible because there are too many women for me to count. Really, though?! And some women probably saw this a compliment; I didn’t.

humbleheart's picture

PART III: Another point I think needs to be made, is a lot of women who tolerate men saying things like that about other women (this is my opinion), do so because they settle for those types of men. Many women like Trey Songz because they think he’s attractive and sounds good, and would still like him even if he said or did something they didn't like. And in real life, they would settle for these types of men. That dude they’re dating could talk bad to them and they would stay because he looks good. He could be sleeping with many women and they would stay with him because he talks a good game. This IS an important issue for us as women. We shouldn’t want to date a guy just because he looks good or is a man of stature but because he is a man of character; it is his character that will be climbing in the bed with you every night, talking to you, and going with you through lifes trials.

I would like to conclude my post by saying this: we as women need to understand our value and our worth. The worth of something is determined by the price one is willing to pay for it. You are valuable, too ladies. Stop giving a man everything and downgrading your worth to a one night stand. If you’re worth it, he should be willing to pay the price for you (not the other way around) I know my worth; I’m an expensive commodity. Are you lol? :)

sn for @treyzonelove: A man who gives a woman respect doesn't give it to her because she deserves it. Respect isn't based off who the individual is, but who you are. You give what you want to receive in return. Now that's #LOVE

humbleheart's picture

PART I: @cuttigurl609 and @treyzonelove, first I would like to say thank you for being respectful concerning your comments and your opinions. First and foremost (referring to the comment from treyznlove), I would like to say, that I am in no way trying to change Trey Songz. It’s even crazy to think that I would try to change him to be where I think he needs to be. I don’t have that type of authority in anyone’s life, for everyone has a choice as to what road they choose to go. Secondly, a lot of the comment I made was generalized to the industry as a whole, not just Trey Songz, even though I used a part of his song ‘Don’t Judge’ as an example. That being said, I think that it is important (note, that I’m speaking in general) for people to have individuals in their lives who will challenge them and inspire them to be a better person. This requires honesty with those you care about, while presenting the truth in love.

Also, the comment that I made about Trey Songz disrespecting women was made because I felt that a lot of his fans wouldn’t tell him the truth. The majority of his fans are so caught up in how ‘fine’ he is or what he looks like with his shirt off that they’re not willing to tell him the truth. For the record, Trey Songz is a man. He is not God. And he has areas of his life that needs improvement like everyone else. We all have areas in our lives where we can grow and improve. Our aim in life should always be to become better people.

Furthermore, I don’t think a lot of celebrities get the privilege of growing in character because there aren’t people willing to tell them the truth; and when someone does, all of the followers get angry, not realizing that worshipping someone and praising someone for everything they do does not push them to be a better person.

CutTiGurl609's picture

@Humbleheart first I just wanna say that in no way am I attacking you and I respect your OPINION emphasis on the word "OPINION" but...

You say Trey should be himself and make music about things that he's experienced and from wut I've heard thats wut he's doing. The things on his mixtape's follow all of the things that we hear about the music industry. Woman throwing themselves at artist, long periods of time on the road away from family, a feeling of loneliness even when being surrounded by people, lots of money and fancy things, and traveling the world. Maybe Trey is just not the man you want him to be, rather than him not being himself. You have to understand that music is art and this is no different from a painter painting a picture that represents sorrow because thats what he was feeling at the time. Whether or not you can relate to any of the topics in his songs, trust me, someone can and it may be positive for those people. I know that if I was a misguided young lady that thought sleeping with random artist was something cool, I would definitely rethink it after hearing how they really feel about those women.

On Trey's first album there is a song about young men growing up without a father and a single mother called 'From A Womans Hands'. Another song about single mothers struggling, giving recognition to the fathers that are in their childrens life and paying homage to our soldiers and their stuggle with the war and family called "Give A Little Love". Even on his latest single 'Top of The World' a line that pops to my head is the one about young women making guys respect them. Also 'Yo Side of The Bed' which was a single on his 3rd album and one of his mixtapes paying homage to our soldiers. All of these topics in which he has experienced.

Its seems like you want him to talk about things that he hasn't experienced and that would be him not being true to himself.

TreysQuietAngel's picture

It does not offend me when artists use these terrible words to describe females because I know who I am and what I stand for. I am a women who respects myself greatly and have much dignity so when I hear artist using such language about females, I ignore it cause hell they aren't talking to me or about me. Now it'd be a different thing if they said ALL women are this or that. Then, I'd have a problem with the artist because every woman is not this or that. It's the kind of women they like n drool all over that are this and that. I was disappointed when I heard Trey using that kind of language, but wasn't surprised. Trey is an artist, he gives the people what they want to hear (well most of them cause I don't want to hear anything about b's and h's). Overall, I really don't believe he means any harm to anyone by his music but if you're like me, don't listen to it if you don't like it.

TREYZONELOVE_2's picture

@HUMBLEHEART Who are u to say what Trey has experienced n what he hasnt. Trey is rappin about what he likes n does. If u dont like his rap, then dont listen to it. Trey was fappin,before he ever became a singer. I believe he respects women, who respect themselves. If u carry urself in a certain manner people will notice n act upon it. Please dont qudstions anyones character. If u feel like Tremaine isnt where u,think he should be, then we will see u when he get there. Treys rappin is what he wants, not the record labels. His music has never been geared towards young women who are fatherless or young men who r out in the streets,so why would it be now.

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